Talk:Kleptocracy

NPOV or objective truth?

Given that there is significant controversy about who is and isn't a kleptocrat, we shouldn't be in the business of trying to list those that definitely are. I like the change to cite the list from Transparancy International, but I have an alternative suggestion. How about we list those people or systems that have at least N (say 3) moderately-independent creditable citations for being a kleptocracy? We can also cite counter-arguments, if any. This way, we're not trying to define objective truth, and not doing original research, but are instead representing all sides of a controversy. Bovlb 23:20, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

why world wealth distribution absent?

why world wealth distribution absent? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth

bad rules cause bad result. by result, evaluate rules.

thousands years of slavery, honest rewarded rulers? seems kleptocarcy.

over reward and reward for worsening is theft.

how they get reward and how they spend. this is economy, distribution of wealth.

why offshores absent? huge part of world wealth in offshores out of tax system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_bank https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

even if money in tax system, it not for citizens. irs not for citizens, but for private bankers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America:_Freedom_to_Fascism 2.63.200.79 (talk) 03:33, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

This isn't a forum for general discussion of kleptocracy. We have separate articles for all of those topics because they're separate topics. The use of the term "kleptocracy" in this article is based on how it is used in reliable sources, not our personal opinions about wealth. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 03:54, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Where is the usa?

Shouldn't the "United States" be near the top of this list? 174.109.226.89 (talk) 12:23, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

As mentioned above, Wikipedia relies on reliable sources, and reliable sources generally don't classify the U.S. as a kleptocracy. There are definitely articles about corruption in the U.S. such as Corruption in the United States. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 22:36, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

The USA definitely qualifies in 2025 wouldn’t you say? 2600:6C55:7D00:6AD5:C147:F875:7BF0:BC2 (talk) 06:45, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Unless you have reliable sources stating that, there's nothing to change in the article. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 21:58, 6 February 2025 (UTC)

Calling out Russia and China and not the US is a seriously biased double standard. English language sources are going to be likely biased towards the US. 172.56.106.164 (talk) 00:07, 26 February 2025 (UTC)

Well, apart from Bernie Sanders' warnings, here are some sources that explicitly support the notion that the US is rapidly moving towards kleptocracy, if not already there:

https://act.represent.us/sign/america-kleptocracy "While the United States is not formally classified as a kleptocracy, elements of kleptocratic behavior exist in parts of its political and economic systems."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/10/trump-doj-pam-bondi-corruption "This is a gift to corrupt foreign kleptocrats and requires renewed examination of Trump/Russia." "The real victims of corruption are members of the public, who end up paying more for goods and services and receiving poorer quality in exchange. I worry that this shift will normalize corruption."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/03/25/america-kleptocracy-trump-musk-corruption/ (paywalled, so here's the archive link) "All kleptocracies are unique, and an American kleptocracy, were it to eventuate, would function differently from those in places such as Hungary, Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, or Venezuela. Nonetheless, kleptocracies share common characteristics, and there are signs a uniquely American form is already emerging." "Looking forward, other executive orders and policies, if implemented, could further push the United States toward kleptocracy."

https://newrepublic.com/article/192292/trump-shell-company-registry-kleptocrats "With a single statement, the White House reneged, demonstrating that it didn’t care one whit for all that progress, all that transparency, and all that momentum toward finally ending America’s role as a center of global kleptocracy."

(this one talks more about the dissolution of the "anti-kleptocracy task force": https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2025/03/27/trump-allies-disbanded-prosecution-unit-kleptocracy/)

https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/executive-order-independent-agencies-trump/ "The thing Trump and Musk value most of all is money. Their entire regime is best understood as a criminal junta whose end goal is to redirect the wealth of the nation into their own pockets. They are running a kleptocracy, and they’ve figured out that facism is actually the quickest path to riches."

https://fortune.com/2025/02/27/trump-admin-transformed-us-into-financial-wild-west/ "In its first few weeks, the Trump administration have sought to reverse 55 years of progress and launch the world’s largest economy onto a path of deregulatory delusion, opening the doors to kleptocracy, fraud, and the dissolution of consumer financial security."

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/dangerous-cracks-in-us-democracy-pillars/ "Already, corruption risks such as potential conflicts of interest abound in the second Trump administration."

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/donald-trumps-gift-kleptocrats/ "In addition to contributing to these negative outcomes, corruption functions as a strategic tool of authoritarian states that cultivate kleptocratic networks and expedite the payment of bribes in service of their geopolitical goals." "Since its first days in office, the Trump administration has exhibited indifference—and at times hostility—toward anti-corruption efforts in U.S. foreign policy."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/17/donald-trump-us-corruption-kleptocracy-britain-corruption-law-oligarchs "The US led the charge against global corruption. Now Trump is clearing the way for kleptocrats"

https://www.doomsdayscenario.co/p/musk-trump-establish-new-era-of-kleptocracy-in-america "Amid spreading signs that the US government would be remade as a kleptocracy at home, she disbanded a special justice ministry task force aimed at investigating foreign kleptocrats, announced prosecutors would no longer seek to punish elites who accepted secret payments from foreign governments nor US companies that paid bribes to do business overseas." "The looming installation this coming week of a Trump loyalist atop its premier federal law enforcement agency, known as the FBI, which has the unique and sole ability to investigate corruption seemingly will remove one of the last impediments to installing a full kleptocracy for regime loyalists."

https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/trump-musk-kleptocracy "The United States' descent into full-blown kleptocracy, as the new Trump regime unleashes the fangs of fascistic oligarchs into seemingly every inch of government and society, has been a surreal and horrifying spectacle."

(the following two are about the first Trump admin, but presumably apply even more to the second)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/2/3/21100092/us-trump-kleptocracy-corruption-tax-havens "But this administration is merely the culmination of the US’s decades-long slide toward becoming the center of modern kleptocracy. The US has become the world’s greatest offshore haven, allowing the crooked and the criminal to launder and stash their ill-gotten gains across the country — money ransacked from national treasuries and prone populations abroad."

https://globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/corruption-and-money-laundering/four-signs-us-creeping-towards-kleptocracy-under-trumps-watch/ "From Angola to Equatorial Guinea and Cambodia, countries where Global Witness has exposed corruption, notoriously corrupt and kleptocratic leaders and their families have profited greatly at the expense of the public good. How were they able to do this? Through consolidating power by putting relatives in high-level positions, censoring and threatening the press, promoting secrecy, and blocking or opposing transparency laws. Sounds alarmingly like the US under Donald Trump…"

Now granted, I don't know how reliable some of these are, or how properly they link to the question - for instance, that first source is neither scholarly nor journalistic, really (though it does support its claims with numbers and links to real news), and several of the last few links are purely opinion; while something like the Center for American Progress merely outlines Trump's corruption, and states corruption is a vector towards kleptocracy and authoritarianism, but doesn't directly call the US itself either of those. One idea that does seem to recur across several of them is association: by helping other deeply kleptocratic countries or kleptocrats, Trump appears to be in a "club of kleptocrats" with the goal of enriching himself and his international friends. NewBorders (talk) 13:54, 5 April 2025 (UTC)